Unsure what to make of this reading?

[Solphist]

Hi folks

I'm new to the whole cpap thing had my machine about 1 month, I recently bought a cms60E pulse oximeter as I sometimes had days were I'd get headaches. This is the second nights result from the pulse oximeter, I'm fully compliant with regards to the CPAP machine, I'm hazzarding a guess that below 88% is bad since there's a little red line on the pulse ox graph data

Any ideas on what's causing this (mask slippage) ? not enough air being forced down? Should I be talking to the hospital to try to get a solution?

Normally I'm fine, I've only had 2 headaches in the last month, I was getting 3 a week and now I feel great normally as opposed to being bagpuss

Love the forum, lots of good info.

[Tigers Fan]

Urgently!

Hi Solphist

Yes! back to the sleep clinic urgently! 88% is not good at all, at all.

My guess is that your CPAP pressure is way too low - your chart looks typical of OSA and not like treated OSA.

Ask the medics!

TF

[Solphist]

Thanks

Thanks for the help.

I'll contact them today, to see about upping the pressure

cpap users are always under pressure

[Tigers Fan]

That's a good point!

CPAP users do it under pressure!

[James @ Intus]

It's difficult to draw conclusions from that one, somewhat grainy screenshot alone. If you could post a zoomed-in version, detailing that particular desaturation, it may yield more clues. Zoomed out like this, it's hard ot judge what the trace is saying.

It could well be explained by low profusion, or the oximeter briefly dislodging.

If you have an APAP, try and get a full report of a night and merry that data with the oximeter's output. You can then tell much easier whether the pressure needs adjusting.

[Solphist]

It's difficult to draw conclusions from that one, somewhat grainy screenshot alone. If you could post a zoomed-in version, detailing that particular desaturation, it may yield more clues. Zoomed out like this, it's hard ot judge what the trace is saying.

It could well be explained by low profusion, or the oximeter briefly dislodging.

If you have an APAP, try and get a full report of a night and merry that data with the oximeter's output. You can then tell much easier whether the pressure needs adjusting.

Here's a zoomed version...
I've solved my own problem, by sleeping at an angle (25 degrees+) the drops to below 88% stop, in fact it rarely drops below 93% the whole night

I have no access to an APAP, I'm being treated on the NHS, who were very good, and fast too, from diagnosis 1 day, to trail machine, to getting my own CPAP all in same week, when I turned in the APAP I got a CPAP the same day (That's service). They wouldn't like me changing the pressure... though I do know how to

Shame I had to tell the G.P. that I had sleep apnea , and it took me over two years to realise that I had sleep apnea to start the process rolling

This trace for those still reading , triggered a carbon dioxide retention headache, so it's does cause me problems, fortunately no migraine but still annoying all day headache. If anyones interested, reply and I'll post up what I'd call a normal trace...

I'd have to say that I feel better with the pulse oximeter, it allowed me to experiment with different sleeping positions with the mask and when things do go wrong, power cut etc... it will wake me up. Although the pulse oximeter says it's only supposed to be on for 2 hours, mines typically on 6+ hours) not sure what problems the pulse oximeter will give me, I suspect they will be less than if I starve my organs of oxygen

[James @ Intus]

Thanks for the additional info, glad you improved with changing sleeping positions.

Owning an oximetry can be a nice tool, if you indeed do some homework to understand what you are looking at.

The new trace is still slightly odd in that you desaturate, more than the magic 4% but don't go fully back up to where you were. Apparently, with apnoea events, say you start at 95% and drop 5% to 90%, with the usual gasp of air, it should shoot straight back up to 95%. Yours only goes up a bit, then drops more. So it's not the usual case. It's all over the place, though luckily not too low.

Keep an eye on it and keep discussing it with the clinic. Sometimes people have other stuff beyond OSA that warrants looking at closely.

Anyway, good to hear you're doing better! And always nice to see some 'advanced users' who dive in with hardcore stats.

[Sparticus]

Regulating ourselves

This proves my point to a t. These kinds of problems prove that self-regulation works. I havent seen many graphs and even I can tell that something isnt right, surley a sleepin reading should look pretty normal, a gradual deepning of sleep and then a slope back to awakening, this graph looks like your having a pillow fight lol. I'd like to know what Intus think on this issue, do you beleive that self-regulation works.

[symmit]

Spartacus - treat yourself to an oximiter for Christmas, I have one which I use nightly at the moment while we're still getting to the right pressure for me, and it's both useful and fascinating at the same time. Not expensive either, less than a tank of Diesel for the car if you're willing to wait for carriage from China.

Have a couple of summary graphs (full night printouts, not particularly detailed but you can see the trend of the pulse rate rise and fall during the stages of sleep) - first is a "bad" night with a gap where I woke for an hour or so and then went back to sleep afterwards, second is a "good" night, mask on all night.

[James @ Intus]

Nice, loving the hardcore stuff here!

Indeed nicely demonstrates how the better night has a much more flat oxygen line. Still slightly curious that it sits around 94-95 instead of 98-99 most of the time but hey, the before and after proves the point of CPAP.

By the way, we'll have some basic, affordable pulse oximeters available on EU-PAP early next year. Seems like more nad more of you are keen to verify things at home so keep an eye out. But always discuss anomalies with your clinic! There's more to it than meets the eye.

[symmit]

Nice, loving the hardcore stuff here!

Indeed nicely demonstrates how the better night has a much more flat oxygen line. Still slightly curious that it sits around 94-95 instead of 98-99 most of the time but hey, the before and after proves the point of CPAP.

By the way, we'll have some basic, affordable pulse oximeters available on EU-PAP early next year. Seems like more nad more of you are keen to verify things at home so keep an eye out. But always discuss anomalies with your clinic! There's more to it than meets the eye.

If I'm sat awake with it it sits at 93-96, rarely hits 100. Need to stick it on someone else and see if it's me or the meter, or borrow another one and compare the two - either way (there's some history here I'm not going to go into publicly but it's not the first time there's been a household need for an oximiter) as you say it shows the difference between a good and a bad nights sleep - I'm told skin colour can affect readings and mine is darker than your average yorkshireman's...

The bad night was just over two weeks ago - something that has been interesting (I check my blood pressure every morning too, doctors orders) has been how my blood pressure went to normal after the first successful night of cpap and also my pulse has steadily dropped night on night - hopefully a sign of reduced stresses on the rest of my body.

FYI - mine is the CMS 50-F, wrist mounted, rechargeable and OLED - usefully the display shuts off in record mode - wasn't expensive. The software and instructions are terrible though - ended up trawling some US websites to find software that would work on one of my PCs, the supplied software won't work on 64 bit (the bedroom PC is Windows 7 x64) and didn't like my laptop - got some that did though in the end.

[James @ Intus]

Indeed if you had (previously) other lung function related problems, a low(er) baseline is easily explained. As long as it goes back up to the level of when you are awake, it's looking good. Also, the way I understand it (not a doctor) the older you get the lower your baseline oxygen level will be.

[symmit]

Also, the way I understand it (not a doctor) the older you get the lower your baseline oxygen level will be.

Thanks. This is the year where everything makes me feel old - oldest child leaves school, youngest starts senior school, wife's big four-oh, me being diagnosed with OSA, general dislike of popular music, and went to a concert the other night and thought it was a bit loud.

Where's my slippers and zimmer frame...

I'M ONLY 38 DAMMIT

[Sparticus]

Now ya talking, thats great, a chance to look at the difference and why cpap works. Thanks Symmit for sharing this, its very much appreciated. I feel its a big help if things like this are shown and explained whats happening. We need more trust to be aloud to do this by the clinics. Im still trying to find out where I can get the cards and cables for my S8.

[James @ Intus]

Perhaps we can organise some informal, advanced end-user training on this topic, what would you guys think about that?