Blowing Bubbles

[petemcarthur]

Hello All from a newbie to cpap. I've had my machine for a couple of weeks now and it's been nothing short of miraculous. The tiredness has gone and I no longer fall asleep at embarrassing moments. I've got a couple of problems, the first one seems to be really common, a sore, stuffy nose. It's all fine when I go to bed but by 4-5 am my nose is blocked and I have to stop using the mask. The sleep clinic asked my to try Nasonex spray and I'll try that tonight. Apparently they only hand out humidifiers as a "last resort"
My other problem is air bubbles forming in my mouth. I've got a nasal mask and sleep with my mouth closed (until the nose blocks!) but I keep blowing raspberries as air at a higher pressure leaks into my mouth. Is this a known problem or am I just weird?

Cheers

Pete

[g3az66]

Hey Pete,

Welcome to the forum and it's great you are getting on with CPAP

I cannot help with your raspberry problem sorry but as for your nasal congestion I use a few drops of Olbas Oil on a tissue placed next to the air intake of my machine and it works a treat. This was recommended by my sleep technician as it's just a herbal remedy.....

Gaz

[Tigers Fan]

Three things

Hi Pete

Welcome!

Sounds like you are doing famously!

You need a humidifier. Lay it on thick about your nose waking you, destroying your sleep, de dah. Spread the miraculous storied thinly till after you have a humidifier. They are standard issue with many PCTs so you are only seeking to redress the Post Code lottery effect.

A few drops of Olbas Oil on a pad placed by the air intake may well help keep your nose clear.

A chin strap may well help with your mouth problem -need to get your nose sorted first, obviously!

TF

[petemcarthur]

I tried the Olbas oil trick but I think it evaporates before I really need it, I seem to manage to 5:00 am then the nose blocks. The Nasonex spray made no difference but I'll persevere until my next appointment on the 27th.

I think I need a chin strap, I found out there is a difference between a fully closed mouth and lips sealed. What seems to happen is my jaw relaxes slightly and air enters from my throat causing my cheeks to balloon out swiftly followed by a rude sound, it would be funny if it wasn't so annoying.

I will badger them until I get a humidifier, I'd buy the thing myself but suspect that would cause a problem with the clinic.

[James @ Intus]

A heated humidifier will go a long way to improve things. Many CPAP users with nasal-only masks also practise daily sinus irrigation to prevent the sinus inflammation from happening in the first place. Indeed a chin strap will most likely solve the mouth leak issue.

Anyway, welcome to the forums and glad to hear you enjoy CPAP already!

[petemcarthur]

Thanks for all the responses, I'm sure I'll get sorted in the end, I'm feeling so much better with only 4 or 5 hours sleep I can't wait to get 7 or 8.

The nasal irrigation thing is interesting but I really don't think I could be persuaded to squirt liquid up my nose, it seems pretty alien to me and anyway I'm a coward! Did anyone else feel this way then got the courage to try it?

Cheers

Pete

[James @ Intus]

Tigers Fan can give you the colourful details of the experience. I use it myself too, it's actually surprisingly gentle, like an internal massage of sorts. The power knob will allow you to take it easy or as hard as you like. Same with the strength of the salt mix. It's not for the faint of heart but can be a real blessing if you do rock with it.

[Tigers Fan]

What - of using a SinuPulse Elite?

For a long time now, it's just a routine morning (for me) chore. Mix up the solution, chuck it in the reservoir, push the start button and stuff the nozzle as far up your nose as it takes to seal - it rests gently in the opening of one's nostril. Water goes up one nostril, some more goes up, a little more, keep pumping for a while and then ah! it starts running out of the other nostril. I figure about a gallon stays up there but seeing you only start with twenty-six centilitres in the tank, I guess that is subjective experience rather than fact. Swap nostrils, instant egress of salt solution, I swap twice more. When the pump speeds up, push it to stop the machine.

You thought you were breathing easy before irrigation? Sniff a lungful now, after irrigation - that's easy breathing! Remember those mornings when you wake and pound your chest, Tarzan-like, and feel glad to be alive? Like that - every morning!

There are tricks to learn, as with CPAP. Nasal passages must be at just the right angle - nearly horizontal but with a slight upward incline to your sinuses. Get that wrong and you swallow what should be pouring down the plug hole of the kitchen sink (machine needs power, not usually available in bathroom). Get it wrong the other way and you add your nose to the holding tank situated somewhere up your nose.

Temperature a tad either side of blood is pleasant, beyond that in any direction and the discomfort increases quickly.

I recommend a double thickness of tissues easily to hand whilst you are still bent over the sink and then a box of tissues to hand when you stand upright. Stopping the pump does not mean the water stops flowing from your nose!!! Blow gently!!!!

That ten gallons of salt solution that disapperaed upi your nose before any started to issue from the other nostil is still up there!!! Now, for the fortunate few (I expect they exist) and the experienced user, that ten gallons drains quickly and easily. However, if, like me at the start, you do not come under either of those headings, I strongly urge you to carry a box of tissues with you at all times.

I can think of spontaneous happenings around male puberty and in a manner not dissimilar - always when it is acutely embarrassing - that ten gallons decides to gush from your nose, a few quarts at a time, over the next several - well - a couple of hours, easy! Even when you think it's all over for the day, do not casually bend over to pick something up, stroke the cat, pull a weed!!! That is guaranteed to bring on Niagara!!!

The benefits instantly, from the first use, out-weigh any (heh!heh!) drainage problems - it's not just easy breathing but easier CPAPing, your 90% pressure will fall, mouth breathing is reduced, any need to pick your nose is reduced. Fantastic! and before you know it, the solution fully drains within a few seconds and two or three gentle blows - long before you have put the kit back in the cupboard.

Not only but also - in the two-ish, I think, years I've been using mine, I've had not a single sniffle, cold, flu, red, runny nose - nothing of the sort! Nada! Zilch!

Is that what you wanted me to talk about, James, or was it something else?

TF

ps oh!yes! the power setting. I use 5, which gives a jet about an inch high to atmosphere. You could go higher and wash your grey matter, too - or lower, but I suspect you'd need more patience than I possess.

[petemcarthur]

Hmmmm I think my cowardice will win on this one, however the thought of reducing the chances of colds is appealing. On that point how on earth are you supposed to use cpap with a cold? My nose is usually so blocked nothing will clear it.

[Berneta]

Just Awful

Hi Pete--welcome to the forum, and I think I agree with you. That nose flushing sounds just awful. I think when I have that problem, I will try a menthol nose spray, or something of that nature. With my luck the salt water would just come out my mouth--YUK. Guess I am cowardly too! Berneta

[James @ Intus]

On that point how on earth are you supposed to use cpap with a cold? My nose is usually so blocked nothing will clear it.

That's where full face masks come in. If the nose is blocked, air will go in through the mouth. But yes, colds can be problematic, even with a full face mask. That's why unblocking the nose, ideally naturally without drugs, is such a beneficial thing for CPAP users.

If the machine-powered nature frightens you, buy a neti pot somewhere for a tenner or so and try gravity first. It won't give the same near perfect results but makes for a gentle, and very affordable introduction to the concept of saline nasal irrigation. It has been practised for thousands of years, I'm sure you too can make it happen.

Nasal breathing makes CPAP all the more comfortable so trying your best to ensure free nasal breathing should be a priority. This can also involve just reading a book on the topic and making a few dietary adjustments. Or buying an air purifier/sterilizer for your room for example. There's more than one way (and for some a combination works best) to go about it.

[petemcarthur]

Clinic visit

Just back from the clinic complete with humidifier and full face mask, hopefully tonight my be a bit better that recent nights. The congestion had got so bad that I was only managing three hours on cpap each night. The mornings weren't much fun either, usually a headache and slightly bloody nose. The only medication that seem to stop the congestion was Vicks Sinex but I suspect that tolerance to that would build pretty quickly and would not be a long term solution.

I'm still amazed at how effective the treatment is, I'm 54 and was made redundant earlier this year, I used to think that another job was not going to happen, the tiredness made me convinced I couldn't do another job. Well I may not get another job quickly but I'm much more positive now and starting my own business is becoming appealing.

In a way CPAP has given me my life back (and a sore nose :-))

[shuckie]

Apparently they only hand out humidifiers as a "last resort"

Hi Pete

I had a similar experience with my clinic. The female sleep technician who provided me with my CPAP could not be persuaded to supply me with a humidifier even though there were some in stock. I assured her that I would give the CPAP a good try without the humidifier and bring it back if I didn't need it but I couldn't persuade her.

Having struggled with a dry mouth for a couple of weeks since getting the CPAP I made an appointment to go back and insist upon having a humidifier. The male technician wasn't too keen on me having one and tried his best to dissuade me, even going so far as to imply that I'm not "really" a mouth breather and that I should try a nasal mask instead. How would he know whether or not I breathe through my mouth at night unless he has been sneaking into my bedroom???

Anyway, I eventually got the humidifier and it has definitely made a difference. It took me a little time to find the correct setting to make the air less dry without soaking my face but it has defnitely made it easier for me to fall asleep in the first place.

I hope you get on well with your humidifier and new mask; please let us know if the combination works better for you. Also, I wish you the best of luck finding a new job with your renewed energy!


Regards

shuckie

[petemcarthur]

I'm trying not to get my hopes up as one night is not a real test, but I managed a full 8 hours with the new setup. Much less nasal congestion and I can breath through my mouth if I want to. What surprised me is how much quieter the new mask is. I had a few minor leaks but no real problems, ordered a sample of RemZss to see how they feel.

So far so good.......

(Still working up the courage to squirt seawater up my nose :-() )

[Tigers Fan]

No curage required

Hi Pete

The Sinupulse Elite has six discharge volume/pressure settings. They start at 'I can't feel anything!' and work gently upward to a gentle massage - come to think of it, I think the scale is a sliding one, but the highest flow is still but a gentle thing.

And the benefits! Wonderful.

Sounds like you would best use it in the evenings - I expect I would, too - rather than incorporating it into your morning routine, as I have.

If you are teetering, take the plunge and reduce the 'why didn't I do this before' regret.

TF