Anyone got a theory on REM Sleep?

[DevonBound]

Hi All,

I was diagnosed with OSA in January, after I would say 10yrs with the condition of snoring and gasping - probably got worse over the years as I got larger and larger (Now 17st).
When I was finally diagnosed, a few things over the past few months are now making sense to me. For instance my wife always dreams and used to regularly ask me whether I had experienced dreams the previous night....and I have to say I couldn't actually remember the last time I dreamt....Knowing now that I have subconsciously been awakened 40 times an hour with OSA, it is no wonder I never entered REM Sleep and experienced dreams.....has anyone else had experience of lack of dreams due to OSA, Could this actually be described as a symptom??

My Reason for asking this question, is simply this....after a few months of tweaking my treatment, my AHI levels finally seem to be heading in the right direction (currently at 8 per hr) hurrah and long may they continue to fall rapidly.
I am starting to feel much better about myself - I still awake somewhat tired in the mornings, but I now feel so much more alert at work and no longer fall asleep in the chair of a weekend or in the evening and this feels great in it's self and yet can only get better as my treatment is continually fine tuned.....enough of the hurrah story I hear you say! - what's your point!?

My Point is this....I am now for the first time in years starting to experience dreams again, I can remember them vividly the next day and in the mornings feel like I have been awakened from a deep sleep with the typical groggy feeling of being suddenly awakened.....but my quandary is this...how can I be entering Deep Sleep or REM Sleep where dreams are possible, when my APAP is still reporting that I am being sub-consciously awakened 8 times an hour (Every 7.5 minutes). REM sleep, I am led to believe only occurs after 30 - 45 mins of sleep at the earliest....can the APAP be reporting an AHI as something other than me stopping breathing and that I am actually entering deep sleep after all?

Has anyone got a theory on this or experienced for themselves?

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this subject
DB

[GrumpyBiker]

Remember, AHI is your Apnea/hyponea index, those 8 events are likely mostly hyponea events, where your breathing gets shallow recording an event but the PAP machine prevents it progressing to an Apnea.

Just a guess, but it makes sense to me

FWIW, I have never remembered dreams - I sometimes envy those who do.

Andy

[James @ Intus]

Great story, thanks for sharing.

Andy is in the right direction. It's an index. The events are not evenly spread over the hour. Eight an hour is one every 7.5 minutes so indeed, if you look at it that way, it's unlikely you can go through the required sleep phases in 7.5 minutes to reach dream state sleep. But it doesn't work like that. You may be getting 2 hours of 0 AHI sleep and then 2 hours of 16 AHI. That two event-free hour period may be enough to get some sweet dreams.

The fluctuations happen because of body position and sleep stage itself. The deeper the sleep, the more relaxed the muscles, the higher the AHI (ironically).

So to tweak your therapy further, you should probably look beyond just the machine settings and mask adjustments. When you roll around a lot for example, you can expect problems and possible subsequent breathing events. A better mattress, pillow, a Hose Lift etc. are all ways to keep you more stable throughout the night.

Also remember that 0 AHI is not necessarily the goal. Healthy people will record a few events too, for various reasons.

[Tigers Fan]

Scary though!

Hi DevonBound

I'm also getting dreams for the first time in memory - big, fat vivid ones! and I'm not sure I like them!

My AHI is down in the 0.5 to 1.5 region with the occasional restless night to keep me keen. When I wake from dreams, I have a problem knowing for sure it was a dream and didn't actually happen! And they're not all of them about sunshine and meadows and frolic-ing lambs.

The craik is - my snoring and lack of dreams used always to be put down to a pint too many. I gave up alcohol twelve years ago - jeez - and the snoring and lack of dreams was always put down to the fact that I used to have a pint too many. CPAP seems to give the lie to those theories! So - is a lack of dreaming a symptom of OSA? Undoubtedly! And of a pint too many? Undoubtedly! And of twelve years of abstinence? Absolutely not - that's OSA!

Tigers Fan

[gvader]

Not too sure that the dream theory is valid, I was diagnosed with severe OSA but even before CPAP I have always had vivid dreams and never had a problem remembering them when I awoke.