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**Tigers Fan** · 6 December 2008, 15:53

Jet lag, too

Hi chelseauk

Please enable me to understand what you are telling us. What is 'FM'? and 'CFS/FM'? [chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia but I still don't know what that means] I guess '5Htp' is a pill, but what does it contain? [ah! may help production of feel-good seratonin] Ditto for 'CQ10'? [anti-heart failure and delay Parkinson's. Que?]

Now 'Melatonin' I do understand! Travellers' Friend - take it a half hour before you want to sleep, lay down and it's lights out for 'x' hours. Without Melatonin, I used to take a week to get over jet lag in Oz or Japan (or UK from the US) but with Melatonin, three days tops. Wouldn't be without it for those 'sleepless' nights that I get occassionally. Boing! Zonk! Good morning!

Apparently it ran into trouble with the FDA (Federal Drugs Authority) and the equivalent over here (I think pre-'NICE') because folk started to believe it was 'The Youth Drug' - taken in sufficient quantities for a sufficiently long period and it was reputed/rumoured to reverse the aging process. As there is/was no long term study on the effects of long term use, it was banned in UK over the counter.

I get SAD (seasonal affective disorder) if there aren't any sunny days in a winter's week and I find Melatonin helps with that also - by helping maintain a good sleep pattern and combat my tendency to like late-night movies when I'm feeling blue.

Melatonin has long been on my "Good Stuff" list!

Tigers Fan

**chelseauk** · 6 December 2008, 19:39

I won't go into FM here - as it will be a distraction...... - i'll start another thread maybe.

My reason to mention some of the stuff i'm trying is i notice that others don't get better after CPAP - i wonder is some natural remedies might improve quality of sleep for others.

For anyone interested in FM or CFS see http://forums.cpap.co.uk/showthread.php?p=4496#post4496

**chelseauk** · 6 December 2008, 19:56

CQ10.

Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) is a natural energy producing nutrient
involved in a wide range of body systems. CoQ10 is located in the
mitochondria, tiny power plants found in every cell in the body,
and effectively supports their energy producing pathways to help
fuel the body's daily activity. A potent antioxidant, CoQ10 also
defends cells against free radical damage. 60-200mg daily.

5-HTP

A Norwegian study showed that 5-HTP can affect sleep patterns by increasing the levels of serotonin, which is needed for sleep. Serotonin is needed to produce melatonin, a hormone which regulates sleep-wake cycles

**Tigers Fan** · 7 December 2008, 09:33

Thanking my lucky stars!

Thanks for your detailed reply, chelseauk - quite an education for me. I don't know how much you suffer from FM and CFS but you have my great sympathy. I can't even begin to imagine what it might feel like. Any pain is enough to make me feel instantly like an old man and send me reaching for comfort food.

When I had sciatica a few months ago - all residual problems now gone, thank ****** - the only relief I found at night was to lay on my back, which sent my AHI through the roof. So next day I had sciatica and felt knackered, to boot - and so on for what felt like it was going to be ad infinitum. That lasted a few weeks, not several years, but it's as close as I can get to understanding what FM and CFS on top of OSA must be like.

I respect hugely that until you shared this with a view to helping others, you gave no clue about suffering these conditions.

Tigers Fan

**James @ Intus** · 7 December 2008, 11:57

Thanks for sharing.

Realising, like you, how many OSA sufferers suffer from (winter) depression and a distrubed hormone balance, (low light levels = low serotonin and imbalance of melatonin) we suggest to many (even more so to those with night-shifts and bad sleeping patterns) to consider bright light therapy.

You take melatonin directly but as you say, certain light waves can tell the body to make these itself. Results are relief from (winter) depression and much improved sleep as well as raised energy levels and reduces carb cravings (which helps keep the weight under control). It really has so many positive effects, a CPAP machine should almost come with a therapeutic, wave-length optimized bright light therapy box.

Based on this, we looked around for the best light therapy unit and found the Litebook Elite (manufacturer's website here) of which we are the exclusive UK importers (as well as a frowing number of other EU countires). It has all the clinical evidence one would want and is so small, it's not a burden at all. Fifteen to thirty minutes a day sorts out most people.

It's no coincindence suicide levels (especially in Nordic countries) shoot up during the winter. People feel fatigued, down and depressed. Restoring serotonin and melatonin levels can really boost someone's outlook as well as restore their sleep.

So I wholeheartedly agree with you chelseauk, and look forward to your findings. Seems to me you're on the right track and have done your homework well.

Edit: Also see this undenatured Wey Protein and their CFS research. We used to sell it but importing it became too much of a hassle. You can still get ImmunoPro in the UK.

**Tigers Fan** · 7 December 2008, 18:45

Litebook

Hey James

Can't find the Litebook Elite on your website though plenty of other UK retailers have it.

Please tell us how much Intus sell them for.

Tigers Fan

**leswaller** · 8 December 2008, 08:23

Hi Tigers Fan
CFS = Chronic fatigue syndrome
FM = fibromyalgia

**James @ Intus** · 8 December 2008, 08:54

Everybody has the Litebook on for �127.65 0-rated VAT, all but Amazon which is not set up for not charging VAT where it isn't due. For private domestic use pretty much anyone is allowed to get it at 0% VAT.

**chelseauk** · 8 December 2008, 19:01

Just found this...

Sleep Apnea

80% of people with fibromyalgia suffer from sleep apnea, a disorder that causes momentary stoppages in breathing. Sleep apnea only occurs when a person is sleeping, but it can affect some people so badly that they actually cause themselves to wake up. Many people who suffer from sleep apnea don?t even know that they have it - usually it is a partner that notices the sufferer waking up.

In apnea, there are gaps in breathing that can last for a few seconds or even as long as a minute. These gaps are often caused by a collapse in the airway due to snoring or being overweight. This is referred to as obstructive sleep apnea. However, there is also a much less common form of sleep apnea that appears to be caused by a defect in the central nervous system.

Referred to as central sleep apnea, this type of apnea is caused by a miscommunication from the brain. For some reason, the brain "forgets" to tell the lungs to breathe. People suffering from this type of apnea usually remember waking up.

Sleep apnea symptoms can affect a person?s sleep patterns. Some people with severe sleep apnea actually wake themselves up hundreds of times a night, if only for a few seconds. This prevents the body from benefiting from any restorative sleep. Sleep apnea can leave fibromyalgia sufferers feeling increasingly fatigued and even more subject to pain.

**James @ Intus** · 9 December 2008, 08:44

Thanks chelseauk,

The part above it, about Alpha EEG, is interesting too:

Account Suspended

http://www.fibromyalgia-symptoms.org/fibromyalgia_sleep_disorders.html

That would show on a PSG so I wonder whether you'd be able to convince your consultant to have a full PSG, with a view to checking this out in particular.

**James @ Intus** · 9 December 2008, 09:04

How interrelated does it get?!

In today: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7767320.stm

Obesity - Type II Diabetes - Sleep - Sleep Apnoea - Cyrcadian Rhythm - Melatonin

All the stuff we have been talking about in this thread!

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Tired After CPAP - Supplements.

Tired After CPAP - Supplements.

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