DVLA advice

[Simes2112]

I've read quite a few of the threads on here about driving licenses and OSA. It seems fairly clear to me that there is a reasonable amount of inconsistency amongst the doctors diagnosing OSA and not surprisingly the corresponding inconsistency in how patients deal with the issue.

I've tried to make a decision about my own situation using the information in the threads but would really appreciate some advice from you good people.

I'll try to keep this brief.

1) Saw GP early June.
2) Saw Consultant 9th July - he told me to stop driving there and then. Confirmed by letter and said that when the OSA diagnosis is confirmed I must inform the DVLA. I stopped driving as instructed.
3) Oximeter test 24th July.
4) Went on holiday for 3 weeks
5) Oximeter results - 46 AHI - given CPAP kit - on 8th September. I regard this as "diagnosis confirmation" am I right?
6) Oximeter results after 3 nights on CPAP - 3.4 AHI - 93% blood oxygen level average. Lung function technician very pleased - increases CPAP pressure level to aim for further improvement. Compliance was about 8 hours per night
7) Now been on CPAP for 13 nights. Have had no daytime sleepiness.
8) Seeing Lung function tech. again on 14th Oct.
9) Seeing Consultant on 15th Oct.

So I have not driven since 9th July but I have NOT surrendered my license.

I know that I must inform DVLA. But can I ...

a) drive again now since I CPAP compliant and have no daytime sleepiness

or

b) not drive until I see the Consultant again to get his view?

or

c) not drive until I have had a response of my notification to DVLA

Any help gratefully received.

Simon

[James @ Intus]

Re step 5, yes, that oxygen desaturation index (not quite AHI) would indeed have confirmed it. You should have / would have gotten an actual diagnosis in writing, always handy for your records.

I'd opt for the safe option c) inform the DVLA now, saying you are doing swimmingly on the therapy (ideally with a confirmation from the technician or a print-out of the report if your machine has that functionality) and then wait for the DVLA to say "OK then, you're good to go".

The DVLA won't be difficult about not having them informed earlier. But if you do drive now before the all-clear, and something happens, the insurers may not be best pleased.

So c) for me, ideally combined with a bit of b) to get the consultant or technician's stamp of approval.

[GrumpyBiker]

1, Telephone, email or write to the DVLA Link to DVLA website - I used the phone and told the DVLA slavey that I was on CPAP and compliant.
2, They will send you a medical questionnaire to fill in.
3, If you can honestly say that you are compliant on CPAP and do not suffer from daytime sleepiness, then they will write back in a week or two saying you can keep your licence.
4 - if you have no daytime sleepiness then you are a better driver now than you have been for some time - go for it.
5 - I have also informed my insurance companies (bike and car), neither of which considered my condition to be a problem - ie no change to cover or premium

Andy

[Floatyboaty]

I successfully did exactly the same as Grumpybiker, Phoned up, they sent form ,filled it in and returned it saying compliant. Letter back in a week to say okay to drive.

[Simes2112]

James - thanks for your view.

Grumpybiker - can I clarify - that your view is do your steps 1, 2 and 3 ASAP. And start driving immediately with a clear conscience OR are you advising that I should wait until I hear back from the DVLA?

[GrumpyBiker]

The only reason to stop driving is if you are unsafe - that is why the DVLA suspend your licence if you are suffering from daytime sleepiness. OSA is one cause (possibly the most common) of this and DVLA know that compliant use of CPAP is a very effective treatment for OSA that removes the daytime sleepiness.

If you are not suffering from daytime sleepiness then the DVLA will not suspend your licence.

You are therefore considered safe to drive by the authorities, so drive with a clear conscience. The notification process is however, a legal requirement so be sure to go through it.

Andy

[Tigers Fan]

5p worth

I am 100% in agreement with Grumpybiker, Simon. You can drive legally but get your paperwork done asap.

My 5p worth is this. Consultants can tell you about OSA. They may have a working knowledge of DVLA requirements concerning DVLA and they may have a hearsay knowledge. Either way, it is not their field of expertise, so consultants would be better employed sticking to what they know about and are paid to help us with - in this case, OSA.

Your responsibility is to inform the DVLA when the consultant confirms to you that you have OSA. How nice of the consultant to inform you of this responsibility if you weren't aware of it. End of. The consultant has no authority to instruct you to cease driving. End of.

Your driving license is a matter for you and the DVLA. You tell them you have OSA and they will tell you to stop driving until you are being successfully treated. You tell them you are being successfully treated and do not suffer daytime sleepiness, they will tell you you may drive again (takes a couple of weeks-ish). You do not need a consultant to tell you or DVLA that you are not sleepy in the daytime - after all, how would s/he know except you tell him/her so?

In your case, the first the DVLA will know is that you are not daytime sleepy, so continue driving legally. The whole thing depends upon your answers to the Epworth Scale questions - and no-one, including a consultant, can answer those questions for you!

Several of our members have fallen foul of consultants acting in omnipotent ways. Consultants and OSA go together. DVLA and driving go together. No need for cross-contamination at all.

One small but important caveat: if you piss the DVLA off, they just might piss you off back again by insisting the medical expert who says you are fit to drive must be your consultant, rather than their in house guy who assesses the Epworth Scale answers you send in. Be nice to them, they are nice people - and like tuning paper over and keeping their desks clear.

As you may guess, I have strong feelings about folk who poke their noses in where they don't belong, especially if they mis-use authority and complicate simpe processes.

TF

[Simes2112]

Thank you.

Thanks for the excellent advice and guidance guys - I really appreciate it. It is all making my transition into the CPAP world so much easier.

I'll get the DVLA paper work done tomorrow and get it sent off. I do feel that I can honestly say that I have no daytime sleepiness and it will be good to be mobile again.

Cheers,

Simon

[Simes2112]

Conversation today with DVLA

So being the good boy that I am I got moving on notifying the DVLA of my OSA diagnosis today. Started off by checking the website for DVLA (http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/) and followed the Medical Rules link and spotted "at a glance" guide. I thought that looked helpful.

So I downloaded it - it is entitled, in full - "For Medical Practitioners - At a glance Guide to the current Medical Standards of Fitness to Drive" and is dated September 2009.

With respect to OSA (for Grp 1 licenses i.e. standard car / motorcycle etc.) it says "Driving must cease until satisfactory control of symptoms has been attained, confirmed by medical opinion".

This is interesting because that tells (paranoid) me - that I should wait until a medical practitioner says "Yes Simon, you're good to drive".

I hadn't intended to find that booklet - I was actually looking for this page on the directgov website for questionnaire SL1. However, I saw that the form was last revised in February 2008 and because Tigers Fan had mentioned the Epworth Scale in his post above I wondered if the form had been superceded since the form on the website does not have any questions about the Epworth Scale.

So I called the DVLA and spoke to a very nice young lady. I told her that I had recently been diagnosed with OSA. She asked me if it was under control and I said "Yes", she said "Good". She took my personal details and said that she would send me a form to complete and that I had to return it within 21 days. Her parting shot was (without any prompting from me):

"As far as driving is concerned, continue to follow your doctor's advice" !!!

Grrrr !!!

My letter from my consultant says "... he must not drive again until his sleep apnoea has been successfully treated".

I shall say no more for now, other than to say - I've made this post in the interests of relaying this up to date DVLA information based on my experiences today and NOT to contradict anything stated by anyone else in these forums.

Thanks again folks,

Simon

[Tigers Fan]

No contradictions anywhere!

Hi Simon

Confirmed by medical opinion - you send your Epworth Scale answers to the DVLA, their in house medical expert/doctor reviews your answers and delares you fit or unfit to drive. No reference to your own/local doctor or consultant.

Continue to follow your doctor's advice - you tell us he said, "he must not drive again until his sleep apnoea has been successfully treated". You also tells us in another post that you do not experience any daytime sleepiness. If that does not constitute "successfully treated", I don't know what does or why we use CPAP!!

TF

[Simes2112]

TF -

I tend to agree with your interpretation :-)

Thanks,

Simon

[Alleycat]

Simon
The sleep apnoea trust leaflet is also very informative on this issue. The DVLA guidance is that it is your responisibility to ensure you are fit to drive- as it is everybody's regardless of the cause of tiredness. Tiredness is just as dangerous as alcohol intoxication in impairing driving ability and is difficult to quantify unlike knowing how many pints you've had. It sounds to me that you are successfully being treated and therefore there shouldn't be any problems with you driving.

TF- in defence of the consultant he has a moral obligation to advise a patient to stop driving until treatment is successful. Its amazing how many patients who will have an Epworth over 12 (and even say there is some chance of dozing of whilst stopped for a few minutes in traffic) and are still driving, claiming no body told them they couldn't- very scarey!

AC

[Simes2112]

Thank you

Alleycat -

Thanks for the tip - the Sleep Apnoea trust web site looks very good indeed.

Cheers,

Simon

[Tigers Fan]

No arguement

Hi Alleycat

We are in complete agreement and accord.

You say "the consultant has a moral obligation to advise a patient to stop driving until treatment is successful." I said, "Your responsibility is to inform the DVLA when the consultant confirms to you that you have OSA. How nice of the consultant to inform you of this responsibility if you weren't aware of it."

Simes2112 said, "[Consultant] told me to stop driving there and then. Confirmed by letter and said that when the OSA diagnosis is confirmed I must inform the DVLA. I stopped driving as instructed." He went on to ask a little later if he should "not drive until I see the Consultant again to get his view?"

My point is that driving has nothing to do with the consultant and everything to do with one's self and the DVLA. More to the point, keep the consultant out of the loop and speed up the process with DVLA - thus either keeping one's license or getting it back the quicker!

TF

[ZZZZZZ]

safety first..

I suppose my take on this whole thing is that I was very, very worried that I would fall asleep at the wheel and that's what sent me to see the doc and consultant in the first place rather than the snoring and falling asleep on the train each day.
In my case I wasn't reliant on a car to earn a living. So when the consultant told me to stop driving immediately it was actually a relief. I duly got the DVLA forms and posted off my old style driving licence. I was lucky to get a CPAP machine in a matters of weeks and my life changed from that point onwards. Within 4 months I was a different person, the CPAP worked a treat and when I next visited the consultant he gave me the all clear to drive again.
The icing on the cake was that if you have an old style licence and have to hand it back to DVLA for 'medical reasons', you get a new style one issued for free!