System One REMstar Auto CPAP System humidifier question.

[Astralquest]

Hi,

I have recently been given a System One REMstar Auto CPAP System by the sleep clinic. I currently have a Fisher & Paykel HC150 standalone heated humidifier connected in-line with the above machine. I was wondering if having this humidifier in-line with the REMstar would affect its performance or if I should buy the integrable REMstar heated humidifier for it? I only ask because there is a setting on the machine which compensates for breathing tube diameter (15 or 22mm). This would suggest to me that the extra volume of a water tank could hamper its performance.

Thanks

[Barely Awake]

Why don't you just ask your clinic to send you the humidifier designed for your machine?
I have a Remstar system one auto and when issued with it I was asked if I wanted the humidifier or not.

[Astralquest]

I asked them for the REMstar humidifier and they said no. They consider it a luxury and not a necessity. I am under Blackpool Victoria hospital for my treatment ATM and the closest thing to "humidification" they will issue you with is the good old dependable Fisher & Paykel HC 325 water chamber and the plastic base board it clips to.

Well to put it into perspective I was diagnosed with sleep apnea at Royal Leicester hospital in 2004. I had to stay overnight and was hooked up to all sorts of equipment. There were five of us tested that night and i am sure there were beds for more.
In contrast Blackpool is so underfunded its unbelievable. They get a patient in and give him an apap machine to take home for a week (they only have 3 machines!). When the patient returns they read the data off of the machine and use it to determine a diagnosis. You are then usually issued with a cpap machine and a mask and that is all.
It is understandable why things are so spartan because the hospital is so small and the geographic area they serve is so large. You can imagine the hoops my technician had to jump through to get me that apap machine in the first place.

The way I feel right now is that if you had to offer me the choice between the REMstar and a brick of Platinum the same size, I would take the REMstar every time. Thing is if the humidifier I am currently using is going to damage or cause problems for my machine in any way I would really like to know. It may take a while but I am willing to scrape together the £150 for REMstar humidifier if need be. Unless someone is willing to donate one that is LOL

[Barely Awake]

I guess you could contact F&P and ask them if the humidifier can be used with your machine.

[Tigers Fan]

The F&P humidifier will work just fine as a humidifier with your machine but as you wondered from the start, it will affect the algorithm of the machine negatively. The extra volume of air between the machine and the mask acts as a 'damper' to delay response times and attenuate the signals the machine detects.

The F&P will serve well enough while you save the £150 which, I suggest, you will find a good spend.

TF

[proterra]

What cheapskates, Sheffield offered me a humidifier without prompting. Got a new System one CPAP & humidifier.
Surely you can choose a provider so why not go to Preston or lancaster instead?

[Barely Awake]

Tigers Fan and proterra both make good points above. Have you tried searching for scholarly articles to support your argument?

http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/content/117/3/617.short

[Astralquest]

I talked to the manager of the sleep clinic this afternoon. It turns out the reason they bought the REMstars is because they were assured by the rep that they would work with the HC150! It is cheaper to have one generic humidifier for all machines I guess. I pointed out my concerns to her that there is a setting to compensate for the tube diameter which should in turn should compensate for a change in air volume. I pointed out that if the humidifier did not integrate with the machine it would would not know how much air is in the humidifier chamber and would probably cause problems with my therapy and give false readings etc. She said if that was the case I would have to return the REMstar and they would have to source a machine that works with the HC150!!! I think I should of just not said anything and bought the humidifier.

Proterra I am a lot closer to Preston (about 6 miles) than I am to Blackpool and I asked to transfer. I spent weeks being sent from pillar to post by my GP (who at first categorically denied that there was a clinic in Preston) and Blackpool to try and arrange something. I was eventually told that I would have to cease treatment at Blackpool, return the equipment and be put on the waiting list for Preston. They recon it's a long waiting list for Preston. Maybe I am being hoodwinked to save them all doing a lot of paperwork. I think I will attempt to contact the Preston sleep clinics secretary and see what she says about the whole matter.

I apologize if anything I have typed seems a bit out of whack, but I am tired and I guess you all know how that is

[Tigers Fan]

You have it in one! Theoretically and legally, allegedly, we are entitled to choose where to go to receive treatment. Of course you are! says the NHS - you'll just have to scrap everything gained so far and go to the back of the queue at the new place. Some choice!!

How many sales people do you know who will tell the truth at all, let alone when to do so might cost them a sale? (I know one, don't we, James?)

Let's put your £150 in perspective. Fair or not, many of us have purchased our entire rig - £700+ - for various NHS "reasons". The usual reason is to avoid losing one's driving license - DVLA say stop driving as soon as you are diagnosed but NHS take weeks to get you your rig. By the by, you are way ahead of the game having been dispensed a RemStar System One!

Post Code Lottery in the NATIONAL Health Service. Pah!

TF

[Astralquest]

I called respronics this morning and they couldn't comment on whether the HC150 was compatible with the REMstar as they have never tested it with their machine. They recommended I used the humidifier made for the machine.

I then called F&P who gave me their field reps number. I explained my debacle to him. He basically gave me "the spiel" about how the HC150 is not only compatible with any machine but that it provides better humidification than any integrated unit. He went as far as to say that if I did decide to go out and buy the REMstar humidifier I would be disappointed and end up going back to the HC150 anyway.

Just this minute I got a call back from the sleep clinic!! Their respronics rep and the reps manager at the head office assured her that the REMstar is fully compatible with the HC150!! Talk about conflicting information. I feel like I am back to square one. Sigh...

However I would rather have the advice of of actual users of the machine. The reps and sleep technicians don't have the first clue what it is like to have a "facehugger" clinging to your face every night when you go to sleep. So far it looks like a good investment to buy the REMstar humidifier.

[Fredxx]

Simple set of answers:
Can you fasten them together and they work - Yes.
Will it affect the operation of the APAP machine - probably a little; it won't be quite as responsive.
Will it affect it such that I notice - probably not
Is it going to damage my REMstar machine - unlikely, in fact it is probably less dangerous than having the integrated humidifier, as you are less likely to get water back into the machine by accident. That is one of the most common things to damage a machine

So on that score, they are right in that it is compatible

Would the REMstar humidifier be better - there probably isn't a lot in it, but you would be £150 worse off. The only real benefit I could think of is travelling with one bit of kit instead of two
Should I be worrying about it - if you are getting sleep therapy ok (and it sounds like you are), then no, you shouldn't worry.

If you are really worried about what will happen when the machine fails, the only real answer is to have a spare whole machine. The REMstar will fail at some point, but should be good for a few years before it does.

I do a lot of travelling, so opted for two machines (one NHS, one bought) as one travels with me and the other stays set up at home;means I always have the reassurance of having the spare when it goes wrong, although the 2 times I have had a failure the hospital was able to sort me out with a replacement the next day.

[Astralquest]

Is it going to damage my REMstar machine - unlikely, in fact it is probably less dangerous than having the integrated humidifier, as you are less likely to get water back into the machine by accident. That is one of the most common things to damage a machine

The people at respronics seem to have that covered. "The Dry Box system featured in the System One Heated Humidifier is another major advance in CPAP technology. It has an array of features designed to prevent water from leaving the chamber. These include a one-way valve between the machine and the humidifier. The water that manages to get past this valve is then caught in the Dry Box, which acts as a reservoir for escaped water. Additionally, the air outlet port has been repositioned onto the top of the humidifier rather than the side, to centre the delivery and minimise the total water displacement around the hole."

I am very prone to leaving my humidifier on you see. When you are a bit of a derp like I am its easy to forget to press a little button. I left it on when we went on holiday for two weeks once. Lets just say that on the night we arrived home I got flooded out with a mask full of rancid water. I had rained the CPAP out! I guess I was lucky though, I had a DeVilbiss 9000 series at the time and they certainly are tough cookies. Will a little rain out hurt my REMstar?

Should I be worrying about it - if you are getting sleep therapy ok (and it sounds like you are), then no, you shouldn't worry.

I feel for the first time since diagnosis back in 2004 that I am getting close to adequate therapy at last. It is a long and weary story of belligerence (mine), buck passing (theirs) and a botched operation that got me this far. If it wasn't for a lovely sleep technician called Megan arranging for me to have another sleep study when I didn't want to have one, I would still be in sleep deprived hell now.
I guess it might seem like I am over analyzing the situation with my apap, but I really just want to get it right this time and have a bit of a life to boot. So far I have two options as far as I see. Firstly I can carry on using the setup I have but I will have to elevate the apap above the humidifier to save it from accidentally getting rained out. I am sure a couple of books could sort that out. I currently have the HC150 mounted to its base board and the base board is screwed into a shelf mounted at just below head height next to my bed. Yes I am that clumsy.
Secondly I could buy the REMstar humidifier but I would have to find a way to mount it in a similar fashion. I would end up causing harm to the machine or drowning myself if I did not. So not only do I have to factor the cost of the humidifier but the price of a bit of nifty DIY carpentry to boot.

Fredxx I am leaning more towards your "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach to the situation right now. All I really need is a solution to my problem. If the HC150 can do as good a job as the integrated humidifier, I will leave it as is.

I would just like to thank everyone for their input so far, it has been much appreciated.

[Tigers Fan]

The humidifier clips onto the side of the RemStar machine and switches on and off automatically with the machine.

TF

[Astralquest]

I know it clips to the side of the machine, its just that I would have to then bolt the whole rig down for its own safety. Sorry about that I should of been a little more descriptive