CPAP Battery Packs?

[B B 1883]

I am looking for a CPAP battery pack such as the one CPAP.com puts out - however I am looking for one that is maybe USED or Second Hand. Does anyone have any HELPFUL advice as to where to look? I have done some searching online and only find new ones at around 375 dollars. This is outta my league right now and I really want to use it this coming month for a camping trip and in August for a missions trip where there is no pm electricity (electricity is on during select hours - sufficient for recharging)

I would appreciate any and all helpful advice
If you know of anyone who has one of these battery packs and doesnt want theirs for some reason, please let me know.

Thank you

[Joe McManus]

An obvious answer, which I'm sure you've tried, would be to check on eBay or Craigslist or any other classifieds listing website. Another idea could be to sign up on all other sleep apnea forums and ask around. There's bound to be someone who doesn't have a need for theirs anymore.


It also may well be the case (if you are OK risking warranty etc.) that a regular battery does the job, provided you can source an appropriate adapter.

[puffin]

camping with cpap machine

Hi
I have an 1978 VW camper van that I weekend in. Having resently been given a cpap Machine by my local sleep clinc I wanted to take it camping.

I first looked at the surpliers web site, the power packs are way too expensive. But they did do an automotive lighter male adapter and a female adapter with croc clips.

Answer:
Purchase male lighter adapter from cpap surplier, this is fused and shielded.
Purchase female adapter from camping shop and replace fuse with correct rated fuse. A fraction of the cost of cpap surpliers version but looks the same as advertised picture.
Reuse or purchase automotive / Deep cycle leasure battery.
A single full charge will easy run a cpap for 2 days.

Clip female adapter to battery making sure leads are the right way around. Plug male adapter into female then plug other end into cpap. Jobs a good un!

[MoutheBreather]

I've heard some laptop batteries also work but I'm the first one to admit all I know is how to flick on the light with the switch, that's where my electrian aspirations end.

[puffin]

The way my electrian friend put it, was just a matter of amp hours verses voltage. I am no electrian myself so if I get this wrong don't blame me.

My machine is 12v at 3amp. Batteries are rated in amp hours. A lesure battery may be rated at 12v 85 amphours. So 3amp x 8hours sleep = 24amp hours used, 2 nights 48 amp hours. But you should never let a battery fully run flat, as this can damage the cells.

A Lesure battery is better then a car battery because of the way they discharge. Car is designed to give a big jolt to turn over an engine. Where as the lesure is used to give a constant discharge i.e. run camping lighting. Lesure will also take a greater discharge before repeatedly rechargeing without damage. Car batteries are more likely to distort the plates if discharged too low/flat.

As for laptop batteries I have no knowledge so can not comment. Also not all machines are rated the same IE a machine rated at 10amps would work out as 80 amp hours for one nights sleep. = one nights charge per 85 amp hour battery. There are 110 amphours batteries but these are getting silly in terms of portablity.

[acebass]

What sort of size/weight are we talking about for a leisure battery? are they the same as car batteries (flippin' heavy)?

[puffin]

Leisure batteries are the same size as car batteries. Without weighing one I think they may be heavier than a car battery. As they have more lead plates in them. They can be obtained from any good caravan and camping store. I think they are available in 85 amphr or 110 amphr sizes. Other sizes may be available.

I have a 1978 VW bay window camper van (see it at devonmoonraker.co.uk) we have a leisure battery fitted in tandom with a normal Car battery. When the car battery is fully charged by the alternator a split charge relay kicks in and sends the surplus juice to the 85 amphr leisure battery. The leisure circuit is separate from the main van circuit.

We also have a spare diesel car battery we purchased for a car which we sold before the battery went in. We have been using this to run the cpap unit as we only tend to camp for a weekend (2 nights) at a time. This is because the leisure is used for lighting, radio, etc.

Having put a meter across the diesel battery it only loses about 1 volt over 2 days. A few days before we camp the battery is charged off the mains with a trickle charger. We have just purchased a 13w solar panel to help top up the batteries between camping as well as on our trips away.

I have heard that motorbike batteries are smaller and are the gell type. These may be a possiblity for one night use. Check the power requirment of your machine. Normal listed on a label on the back. In my case 12 volt dc 3amp. This means a 12v battery/power supply, (are motorbike batteries 6v?) if you sleep 8hrs @ 3 amps per hour = 24 amphrs minimum. 30 on safe side. A small battery charger with quick charge would be required as well.

Hope this helps and yes they is flipping heavy.

[flyinpete]

Once again I apologise for starting up an old post, but as an electrical engineer I though some people who like camping may be interested in my set up.

I have a RESMED S7 Spirit and S8 Spirit 2 APAP machines and have used both while out camping.

The comments earlier are correct, but I really doubt you will find any CPAP/APAP even with their humidifier that uses 80 amps!!

The S7 Spirit and I guess this would account for any S7 machines use 2.2amps per hour just for the machine and increasing to a maximum of just under 5 amps per hour when attached to the humidifier.

The S8 machines draw 2.5 amps per hour just for the machine and increasing to a maximum of to just under 5 amps per hour when attached to the humidifier.

So roughly when using the CPAP on its own you will need, 20 amps for the average night, if the machine is working flat out. Most of us however rarely use much over 75% of the machine capabilities for supplying pressure, so you may find you can will use less that this in practice.

If your machine is designed to run on 12v with a separate power supply (like a laptop) you dont have a problem, but many machines use main electricity. In these cases you need to obtain an inverter 12v DC, to 240v AC.

These are commonly available from the likes of Halfords or Maplin but beware, they are rated in watts not amps, so to get a 2.5 amp supply for the main machine you will need a 600 watt version. These can be purchased for as little as £40 and work really well.

Now if you want to use your humidifier you MUST make sure the Inverter supplies the 240v ac in pure sine wave and not the cheaper modified sine wave or stepped sine wave versions. The cheaper units may cause your humidifier to over heat and be damaged. RESMED for example will not support the use of humidifiers run on Inverters unless they are guaranteed to produce a full sine wave, and any damage will be at your cost so beware.

To power both the CPAP and the humidifier you will need up to 5 amps and require a 1200 watt Full Sine wave inverter, and you are looking at over £500. Any devices at this power capability cheaper than this are almost certainly not producing pure sine waves, so always ask and if the sales guy is unsure don't risc it.

My suggestion is to leave your humidifier at home, to keep the air warm, stick the CPAP inside your sleeping bag....yes it really works if you have a big sleeping bag, but check the filter every morning. OH and make sure you have a bath or shower as the smell through the mask is something you don't want to discover

Do not be tempted to run your CPAP off the battery in the car, I did ONCE and had to make an embarrassed call to the AA in the morning. It may only draw a fraction of the power your car needs to start, but it will lower the voltage when used over night and some cars just refuse to start you have been warned.

I am a big kid who has not grown up...my toys just got bigger and I fly model aircraft when ever I can. This has given me access to the possibility of using light weight rechargeable battery packs to power the inverter. I have access to some large packs of 1.2v Metal Hydride cells (these are the batteries that replaced the old NiCad’s). To get the power needed you really need to use packs of 11 cells to give 13.2v (a car battery runs at 13.8) and then use 4-5 of these packs in Parallel to give the required capacity (that’s 55 individual cells!)

I tried it and it worked great, but it was only half the weight of an equvalent leisure battery, and cost nearly twice as much, but if your out on the hills for a night its an option!!

I use a 120amp Leisure battery that is quite a lump, but runs my cpap for a whole weekend, as long as I don’t sleep too long. I fitted a split charge relay (its the type of thing they use to charge a caravan battery when its being towed) into my car. This keeps the battery toped up during the day as I drive, and this has kept me going for a full weeks camping holiday, when attached to a 600w converter.

Finally DO NOT USE THE CIGARET LIGHTER in your car on an inverter over 300 watts, they can not cope with the power and get very hot, dont ask how I dicovered that.

I hope this has not totally confused you as I am writing on my laptop sitting in Zurich airport waiting for my flight, so I may have missed a few bits. If you need anything clarifying drop me a line and I will try to elaborate.



Peter

[puffin]

Thanks Pete for confirming the details of my posts regarding battery operation, as a non-tech person, I only have a basic idea of what inverters do. Clearly humidifers and camping do not mix well, un-less you go onto a camp site with electric hook-up.

I love the idea of a hiker carrying carrying all those battery packs, as well as their Cpap and mask. Imagine camping in the hills, you get a "knock" on the tent! Your still have your mask on, when you stick your head out of the tent. Chap outside thinks "Silly bugger, thinks he is up Everest with all that Oxygen gear, this is Snowdon!"

[flyinpete]

Been there, done that .... as they say.

I was camping near the top of Cadder Idris (hope thats how its spelt) as part of a 24 hour walking event.

We were taking shifts to watch out for walkers and check them in and out of the check point. I went into the tent to get some rest.....along with my 55cell battery pack, and machine all curled up in my sleeping bag.

2 hours later I was woken up by screams of panic as some guys came into the check point having lost a member of their team over a steep drop. I raced out of the tent, mask still on face. The looks the people around gave me was amazing, as some 19 stone nutter with a see through darth vader mask burst from the tent and starts issuing orders.

15 minuets later the person who had been lost over the steep drop came walking in ...seems that the "drop" was 5 ft and by the time he climbed back up the bank his mates? were gone.

Ever since then people who took part in the event talk about the weird Cadder checkout team who were into Star Wars reinactment!!

I Keep my head down and have a quiet chukkle to myself.


Peter

[macpaa]

Lithium Battery packs

OK there has been a lot of talk about camping and power packs. I'm going to be booking my summer camping trip soon and I live in Ont. Canada. We have a reservation system that sucks and we have to book 5 months in advance. So I have to decide on crappy electrical sight or work out a solution.

Last year I took an 300 watt inverter and tried hooking up to the car. This worked fine for a few days then I had to get a boost off a fellow camper as the battery went dead. But I had been recharging my camera batteries when we were driving the car which was everyday going to the general store for wood or into town for a days outing or to the various walking trails in the Provincial park.

I had looked into getting a battery pack like the one in the link below but I was blown away by the price. Was this price gouging of medical equipment supplies. Sorry but my health benefit's does not cover this. This unit would only hold a charge for three nights sleeping. Then I would have to find an electrical outlet or try and charge off the car again.

http://www.cpap.com/productpage/respironics-battery-pack.html

Here is one that looks a bit better.

http://www.batterygeek.net/v/vspfiles/CPAP_Battery_Packs.asp?gclid=COHowLKD3ZECFSGWGgodNURaeQ

My question - Can I make a battery pack with lithium batteries cheaper than buying a store bought unit. It seems that the Lithium battery technology is getting more advance every year with smaller and more efficient units.

Are there any really clever lads out there that have made their own?

P.S. Sleep Apnea has been around since humans were evolved obviously. And since ever Tom Dick and Harry seem to be getting diagnosed with it these days you would think that they could come up with a proper surgery to fix this issue. I guess when half the population gets diagnosed with sleep Apnea then maybe something will be done. I don't buy the incurable disease B.S.

Thanks.

[Cardoctor]

camping trips

Hi all just joined the forum & have just started using my remstar machine.
Bank holiday weekend cant get a electric hook up for the family camping trip so any ideas on batteries etc that won,t cost the arm & some more body parts, that could be easily available,(looked on respronics site got very scared)
Cheers Jim

[James @ Intus]

Hi Cardoctor,

Welcome to the site!

Any battery with enough capacity and a steady output at the required rates (see CPAP manual for requirements) will do. Prices for battery packs tend to go up when physical size comes down, capacity goes up or when a manufacturers slaps their official seal of approval on.

Some here have had success with standard car batteries (albeit heavy) or portable laptop batteries but hte latter may involve rewiring some of the cables in between the battery and machines.

For your Remstar, this "Shielded DC Cord" (£21.95) and any 12V battery with a female cigarette lighter connection should do the trick for you.

Note that in our shop, we offer this portable battery and this battery powered CPAP - both tailored exactly to camping trip needs.

Remember that the higher your CPAP pressure, the more battery capacity you need.

[puffin]

Hi Cardoctor welcome to the forum.

As james said the car battery and shielded cable method works realy well, I use it my self when I go camping away from power points. Seeing your user name I suspect you have access to a battery or two. The shielded part of the cable just regulates the power flow so you don't get spikes, killing your machine.

If you cannot get the cables, a few days without cpap wont hurt you but may keep the site awake.

Happy Camping.

[James @ Intus]

If you cannot get the cables, a few days without cpap wont hurt

Something to consider for that purpose would be a quality mandibular advancement device (MAD or mouth splint). It can be a nice stand-in for CPAP if OSA was mild, perhaps even moderate to begin with.